Oxford Allen scythe – maybe Villiers MK25c ??

[vhgmcbuddy]

Hello,

As a bevy to vintage lawnmowers but not other things old, I wonder if you can give me some assistance clarifying what exactly I have purchased !!
It’s nit been used for a year, however came with a very nice generator unit attached to the back.

I knew it would not be overly straightforward as I was aware it wouldn’t start prior to purchase . It has good compression, but unfortunately no spark.
I have removed the the bolts holing in the pull start section , photos attached . Now without it sounding a daft question , how do you remove the fan cowling without extracting the centre bolt and everything which comes with it ?? Which I guess means I have to put it back in the correct place for timing ??
Is it possible to get to the points more easily or to check for spark etc ..

Does the cowing split in half if I remove the copper plaque that goes over what looks like a join ??

Any help would be very much appreciated

Regards

Mark

Lindfield
West Sussex

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[vhgmcbuddy]

I meant to say a Newby ! Not bevy !!
Attached Pictures don’t look clear from this end ??

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[vhgmcbuddy]

Hi Mark,
Looks very similar to the engine cowl on my old machine, which is a Model F scythe, have you got it sorted yet?
I had no spark on mine when I bought it, so Ebay came to the rescue and I got the correct coil.
I used my Milwaukee impact gun with 21mm socket to remove the magneto and fan as 1 unit,later I used 11mm socket to remove the 3 nuts to split the fan from magneto for access to set the points.
Later when done I lined up the mark on magneto and end of shaft and tightened it up with impact again, using short pulls on the trigger of 1 or 2 seconds, once happy that running ok I gave it extended burst to lock off fully.

Graham.

[vhgmcbuddy]

Ahh thank you for getting back to me, much appreciated . It may ha e seemed a daft question how to take the cowl off , however from experience undoing the wrong bit could be holding internal items instead !! Didn’t want to risk it . That said I removed the three bolts On the rear and this did indeed hold the cowling on !
I then notice I had a fan with quite a few fins missing ? Not sure if this is an issue but fortunately found engine on eBay for £16.77 inc postage which had a decent fan !! And maybe condenser and coil but I doubt it !!
I then was worried about removing the camshaft / centre but to get to condense r / coil

But it can go that wrong can it !!

Fortunately it all came apart nice and easily and I did a test on the condenser which showed no figures at all on the meter ??

So I’ve ordered a

New plug
New plug lead as was melted
New condensor ( correct one)
Point

I didn’t order Coll’s as it’s only a few years since it had a new one .

Waiting for arrival today and new fan Thursday.

Hopefully it’s not the coil !!

I did mark before I removed so hopefully timing will be correct when I but it back together . Carb cleaned and looks okay / primes
You tube has been very helpful !

Thanks again for your response it is much appreciated .

Will let you know if it has a spark and runs !

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[andyfrost]

That isn’t the correct condenser.

Andy.

[vhgmcbuddy]

I have here a picture of hopefully the right condenser, it did come out of a 4 stroke engine though, maybe someone will confirm.

Graham.

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[andyfrost]

Yes , that is the correct one , matters not if it came from a fourstroke , they are all the same.

Andy.

[vhgmcbuddy]

Thank you and apologies for my lack of response . Correct condenser as above just arrived and a coil from villiers uk.
Well I’ve put the condenser in, fitted / soldered the new coil .

I’ve now got new everything from plug to leads etc….

I put it partially back together and with the plug on the engine I got a spark ! By spinning it up on my drill.

Having got really excited I put everything back together . Primed the fuel , closed the cover in the air filter gave it 1/3 throttle ..
I then had a large back fire ???

Turned it over a few more times and nothing .

Checked spark again ? And Now no spark again ??

Any thoughts …. I’ve had it apart so many times , checked points first and got the correct gap

With a new coil and condenser surely there isn’t much else to give a spark ??

Any assistance would be appreciated …

I’ve got a spare set of points and I’ve tried them too !

Almost as if the coil isn’t working again but it’s brand new ??

Cheers

Mark

[andyfrost]

It’s hard to say without actually “being there” , it sounds as if you may have had two issues, the large backfire would probably suggest incorrect timing. As for no spark , thoroughly check the little insulator bush behind the points and the insulator plate itself , also check the dimple on the coil is lined up with the HT pick up ,sometimes if not lined up correctly the spring loaded pin will jump out.

Andy.

[vhgmcbuddy]

Thank you very much ….

Well it’s definitely not the sprung dimple on the back of the coil , however I don’t remember seeing the little insulator bush behind the points so I will take it apart again and check .

Many thanks again.

Mark

[vhgmcbuddy]

I’ve also now taken the coil back off and cleaned the magnets and piles of any grease or oil just to make sure .
I have two sets of points ? One with a new condenser.
They are slightly different ? One has a bit to tighten point settings the other the usual screw .
I’m using the one with the nut which isn’t so convenient but has the new condenser on it and an arm that is less worn in the end.

Picture of the two points below , can’t see anything obvious that’s wrong here .

Question ??

If the timing is not set up correctly initially prior to putting fan and pull cord pulley back on ?? Would this prevent a spark ??

I can test it with a drill ??

Do you always see an obvious spark ?

Thanks

Mark

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[andyfrost]

You will still get a spark if your timing is wrong , hence backfires and kickbacks etc. , and yes you will always see an obvious spark.
In image 13 there is no insulating washer,so if you’ve been trying that unit you will have no spark , and in image 12 the points gap appears way too much…….I know photos at times can be deceptive but it seems so.

Andy.

[vhgmcbuddy]

Thanks Andy for your assistance I really appreciate it.

image 11 probably wasn’t the most helpful as I hadn’t fitted the new condenser and wire at that point.

Image 12 is what I’m now using ……

Image 13 is my spare one .( is the insulating washer just a brass washer ??) or is that being daft as I’m guessing brass no isolating ?

If brass washer is the case is it the one under the condenser/coil nut ? or under the screw for altering the points ? or both??

or am I missing the obvious which is quite likely !

lastly I have put it back together with the points as per image 12 and still no spark at all…..

Maybe a chance that I have a faulty new coil ??? or have damaged it using the uninsulated points ??

Otherwise I’m at my wits ends ! but still trying to be positive rather than reverting to taking it to someone to fix !

I guess I need to find someone to potentially do a test on the coil ?? or unlikely ?

If all else fails ….
Don’t suppose there are any enthusiasts in in mid Sussex that you know of that are into historic machines if all else fails….

[vhgmcbuddy]

I’ll go and check the points gap again…

[andyfrost]

In image 12 the insulating washer appears ok , it’s the fibre one under the brass nut that tightens your points in place , you will notice it’s missing in the pic with the screw tightner.
Did you check the insulator bush under the points , it’s a tiny fibre bush , sometimes it comes out on the points when you remove them.
It is possible that you have a duff coil , but IMO highly unlikely , I would go as far to say that the modern coils supplied by reputable dealers such as Villiers services , are better than the originals , unlike the Chinese rubbish that I wouldn’t bother wasting money on.
I think it far more likely that you have a wiring/insulation problem , also rather an obvious question , is it a BRAND NEW condenser.

Andy.

[Author]

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